@FianchettoGuy said in #159:
> Lichess is a chess organization not police of the world. Lichess is a chess organization not police of the world. Lichess is a chess organization not police of the world. Lichess is a chess organization not police of the world. Lichess is a chess organization not police of the world. Lichess is a chess organization not police of the world. Lichess is a chess organization not police of the world. Lichess is a chess organization not police of the world. Lichess is a chess organization not police of the world. Lichess is a chess organization not police of the world. Lichess is a chess organization not police of the world. Lichess is a chess organization not police of the world. Lichess is a chess organization not police of the world. Lichess is a chess organization not police of the world. Lichess is a chess organization not police of the world. Lichess is a chess organization not police of the world.
Lol what, lichess not associating with some *chess* orgs because they don't agree with how they have handle SA allegations isn't policing the world
This is stupid. Ramirez already lost his job. What more do you want?
Let us stand united and have female players feel safe . tomorrow is too late , we need action right away .
What intrigues me is why do the authorities don't intervene? Touching a minor is illegal in the USA and almost all countries in the world, so why haven't charges been made? And adult females can formally accuse these perverts of sexual assault. I'm just wondering...
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So any proof or we just banning people on accusations?
I would like to thank Lichess for raising this issue and bringing it to wider attention which it needs.
However, I think the subject is being terribly mishandled and underestimated. It could be there are significant parts I don't understand or for which I am not aware.
The 1st and most important thing to recognize is that, in the United States, any form of sexual assault or sexual harassment (even some spoken words or gestures) is a criminal act. As such, I think any notification to event authorities should result in this procedure being followed:
1. Report any and every allegation to the police. 100%.
2. Let the police conduct the investigation.
3. If the police decide there is enough evidence to warrant charges (for a criminal trial), then the allegedly offending player should be suspended from all chess activities while under investigation.
4. If the police investigation results in no charges, then the allegedly offending player should not face any further chess consequences., except in the case where the victim chooses not to press charges but the crime is confirmed to have occurred.
5. If the police investigation results in charges, or proof that a sexual crime occurred where the victim does not want to press charges, then the allegedly offending player should face sanctions from the chess organization .
There are 2 critical aims to achieve here:
1. All persons (women, children, and even men) must be protected from violence and other criminal acts and must be afforded a safe environment to participate in chess.
2. We must also protect the constitutional rights of individuals that everyone is "innocent until proven guilty". This is why it is vital that any incidents be reported directly to law enforcement who handles the only investigations.
In achieving these 2 critical aims, I think chess culture represents a great opportunity to include and represent women equally, and hope this publication improves this situation while still focusing on the 2 critical aims as paramount.
I note that sloppy investigations or responses from organizations can be extremely damaging to the victims, their family and friends but can also be extremely damaging for "alleged offenders" when the case is incorrectly handled or the accusations are erroneous to any degree (we have to allow for all possibilities).
Additionally, poor handling by chess organizations can result in damage to evidence and other errors that could be counter-productive to an actual law enforcement investigation. Therefore, no chess organizations should be conducting investigations but should instead rely on local police to handle that function professionally and according to established law.
It is very good to see this issue finally get some attention and hopefully the effective remedies it deserves.
This is why I love Lichess
"why don't we just let the government take care of it?" is a gross overestimation of how effective the US criminal justice system is at handling this sort of thing.
GMs are praised and treated like gods but does not mean they can allow everything. I don’t know why random guys defend them (-> beyond reasonable doubts, that’s how it works).
By the way, I was watching an old Réti video by Ramirez over and over again, I liked it. I considered him rather integer way back...
